Upon talking to a few delegators and validators a common question is, how long ?
Is it possible to hard code an epoch that reverts back to full burn? Then another vote can be put in place to start up again if required ? I think people like the idea of an end date. @sophoah
I understand the need to pay for infrastructure, partnerships etc but I see 2 problems for me in this proposition:
1- there are no numbers/calculations made
2- keep the treasury for partnerships/infrastructure (do your business) and then use collection fee to automatically refund users from the hack (transparency!)
I donât really like the way the treasury is used and the current recovery plan, at least with fees collection every people could get back a little portion of what they lost through time.
Will the team still have the ability to raise and lower 
the GWEI for whatever reasons? Also what will the ONE tokens be used for. Are there priorities that the core team wants to utilize these funds for. Who will make these decisions moving forward.
hey @StrongMindsHold
@DKValidator @ONE4All @buttheadus @FortuneValidator see below
I am checking if I can share the sheet we used to calculate the fees which we deemed to be sufficient for long term self sustainment. Are there any other numbers you guys are looking at ?
there are plans for decentralization but there would still be cost that canât be avoided. How would you provide a free RPC service for the user ? Partner ? how long do you think it will be free ? From experience nothing is free in this world and they will either charge the user or charge Harmony if their business model is not sustainable.
I am checking what can I provide more.
We do not. All reward are still unclaimed and are meant to be used for the community. Last I check there are around 13.8m ONE in unclaimed reward.
that will run out in 2025 and while we know its still 3 years away, shouldnât we start accumulating so we have fund to pay for cloud / partner cost after that ? We are looking here at a sustainable model for harmony network to be able to run indefinitely on its own. And without any self revenue generation, itâs impossible to do so.
Everything is possible if you ask me, itâs just about coding logic. However right now the fees burnt are not a lot so we canât predict or estimate when we should stop that. Additionally, if you read the thread, we are looking at those fee to become a long term self-revenue model.
Hmm I think there are too much operational hurdles here. However as I said anything is possible with time.
Interesting, however we canât use the current fee collection itâs way too low compared to what we have been giving to partners.
Thatâs also the objective of the current recovery.
the min increase gas price may happen update may happen depending on the network situation and health.
I would invite you to read the few post I wrote above this one.
edit : unclaimed staking reward from 15m to 13.8m
Could you please explain exactly why the Pocket Network partnership failed to the extent you had to rebuild your own RPC infrastructure? I heard RPC providers were having issues keeping their nodes in sync and this sounds like it could be an issue with the node software. Would be good to understand exactly what happened at what was attempted to address the issues. There are other options which donât involve Harmony running everything, such as light clients, such as encouraging successful apps to run their own infrastructure to support their users.
All reward are still unclaimed and are meant to be used for the community. Last I check there are around 13.8m ONE in unclaimed reward.
If there is no plan for these rewards perhaps that should be reviewed. RPC infrastructure is for the community after all.
that will run out in 2025 and while we know its still 3 years away, shouldnât we start accumulating so we have fund to pay for cloud / partner cost after that ? We are looking here at a sustainable model for harmony network to be able to run indefinitely on its own. And without any self revenue generation, itâs impossible to do so.
The problem we have is trust, or the lack of it right now. The reason we are even having this conversation is Harmony core committed a significant part of itâs treasury to a recovery programme without consulting the community. Now youâre essentially asking the community to pay for this with dilution.
Youâve stated there is no inflationary effect but this simply isnât true - the ONE that youâll be selling/swapping for infrastructure costs and partnerships would not exist without this change⌠they would have been burnt.
What have you looked at for revenue generation using your existing reserves? Do you have someone with the expertise to leverage your reserves effectively? Do you have a DeFi strategy / why not?
I still havenât had an answer to the following question:
- I think weâre all expecting some regulatory pressure in the blockchain space, and this is especially concerning (I think) for US based blockchain businesses. If the US based Harmony core business is being paid transaction fees by network users are there any additional legal concerns that need to be considered?
As far as I know, they shouldnât have any issue now. Most RPC node at one point had issues with syncing due to spam and block full (80m gas limit was used, this has been updated since).
I donât disagree with you here. Most of the community RPC provider stopped (ie Fuzz) because this is still a cost for them and erpc was enough to handle the traffic load.
Sorry if I made myself misunderstood. You are correct and I am aligned with that since the beginning.
We wanted to hire a financial expert but with bear market unfortunately we couldnât, not sure what is the current state of this.
Personally speaking, not harmony talking here, for me, I have little trust in DeFi there are still a lot of risks in it I feel still not mature enough, be it in all network today. And right now knowing Harmony hasnât put any fund into DeFi reassured me because of the associated risk with those protocols.
When I first join harmony full time I always wondered how harmony can sustain long term and what are the sources of revenue. I was surprised that we donât have any actually and mainly have majority of treasury in ONE token.
Sorry I canât comment much on this, I am being told it shouldnât be an issue
Hello all,
Iâve edited HIP-28 Fee Collection - #35 by sophoah to leave two week voting time for the validator community following Network Governance - Harmony.
Note that the rules are slightly different as the snapshot block will be the one at creation date, with no one week waiting time. I hope by that date everyone is already aware of what we are voting on.
I am excited to read the consolidated and congruent HIP-28 Fee Collection FAQ doc.
Given there is a mixed bag on peoples feelings from what I can tell. How possible is a 50/50 ? 50% are burnt and 50% go on infrastructure costs @sophoah
I like the idea! Ya I agree it was kind of a split in the middle.
Well not yet sure where i stand, but i think some statistical details should be giving as to why the hard fork is very crucial on a long run and the stability of harmony ecosystem.
@ONECelestial @FortuneValidator idea taken into consideration. Something we can rediscuss if the snapshot vote is not favorable
Hello all,
Note on the recent edit : HIP-28 Fee Collection - #35 by sophoah
Snapshot vote will be on the 6 Jan so delegator/validator can review the FAQ we intend to publish after the new year holiday. the binary release date will also be postponed.
Thanks
Sorry for being late in this discussion. But the ideal scenario would be :
Treasure earning interests/money/revenue from outside the harmony ecossystem and bringing it to the ecossystem, aggregating value to it.
Fees being burned, alleviating selling pressure on the token
Being very conservative, 2 million usd at 9% a year, with is very reachable and possible, from government debts per example. Nets a 180k year. If you wish to low the infrastructure to 80k a year. It still leaves 100k surplus.
Wouldnât be possible to wait for a better moment for the market to recover and them sell the tokens necessary from the treasury and them, get conservative investments like this. I get it that the actual scenario is very challenging and Im pretty sure full transparency would help changing the mind or even help our delegator or another validators to see the full picture and the full scenario here. We all want harmony to suceed.
You think it will cost $80k for infrastructure costs in 2023?
[EDIT: I see now you mustâve meant $80k/month, not per year.
Canât Harmony pay for those costs already without changing tokenomics and making Harmony more inflationary?
For example:
Harmony has 215.4 million ONE staked on validators as part of the âBootstrap Initiativeâ. At an 8% reward rate, thatâs 17.232 million ONE earned per year. Thatâs ~$177.5k at the current ONE price.
How much does Harmony hope to raise from collected tx fees?
Can Harmony decentralize its infra responsibilities to the community and decrease its costs further?
If this is approved, will Harmony commit to NOT changing tx fees? Will Harmony update the protocol so that all future tx fee changes require a governance vote?
We know:
Harmony keeps moving the goalposts. Says one thing but is already planning to do the opposite and to go back on their word.
[EDIT: @HoundOne_Validator makes some great arguments. Why not stake the bulk of Harmonyâs treasury on validators? Even beyond the 215 million ONE Bootstrap Initiative.
Harmony could simply use those staking rewards to pay the infra costs and earn a lot more ONE than this tx fee idea and it wouldnât be inflationary!
Harmony has 2.26 billion unstaked ONE. Have you considered staking more of it and earning staking rewards to help fund infra costs?
The money earned from the Bootstrap rewards is substantially larger than would be collected from tx fees. What if Harmony staked ~1 billion ONE (and additional ~785 million)?
Even if staking rewards wound only be 6% (Idk what the actual rate would be), thatâs 60 million ONE or $600k/yr at current prices.
That is much more effective than tx fee collection. And only involves use of ~1/3 of currently unstaked ONE in the treasury.
It might not be a permanent solution, but it should be more than enough to assist with infra costs in the next year or two until rider the market recover or Harmony can implement a solution that doesnât involve inflation. We - the community - said NO INFLATION! ]
Has Harmony considered selling the BAYC to fund infrastructure costs?
Is Harmony staking its BAYC to earn $APE?
Radical Transparency
WHY should ANYONE have to ask for this. This should have been the FIRST thing released for the public to chew on LONG BEFORE the vote date.
This is yet another instance of Harmony Teams complete lack of professionalism and IMO HONESTY. The proposal and research results should be put up on the Harmony website FRONT AND CENTER for AT LEAST 30 days prior to vote. There should be posts on social media almost every day about it and where to see it.
What other ideas were considered by Harmony to increase revenue?
Why were those ideas not pursued?
Hello all,
Feel free to read the FAQ we prepared FAQ- HIP-28 Fee Collection - Google Docs
Iâll reply to the all queries tomorrow. thanks
