Thanks for sharing this thread @Jimbo_JCR.one !
I think you hit the nail on the head! This addresses both DAO tooling and self-sustainability which are both essential elements to the success of a DAO.
I shared this thread on Twitter and would like to hear some feedback from the community on how these concepts can be implemented (and built) into a usable tool for DAOs: https://twitter.com/RachelBHarmony/status/1510788269428027393?s=20&t=zf5WZXshVg8kdDqc_WGZmA
Utilizing DeFi in DAOs is an interesting concept, and I think this could be a potential path for DAOs to achieve self-sustainability.
Thanks for chiming in and for your continuous community involvement @Bricktop_One!
I agree with your comment: It is important that we find tools that are compatible with Gnosis Multisig (particularly with the Harmony Multisig fork.)
While we can keep this at the forefront of our focus, it is also important to consider each tool on an individual case-by-case basis.
For instance, we could come across a valuable tool that is not yet compatible. Rather than ruling it out all together, perhaps we encourage our teams to work jointly to find a solution and implement a compatibility solution (this is where the integration stage of our DAO Tooling Pipeline comes in.)
The DeWork tooling issue last time I checked was resolved thankfully.
If anything else regarding tooling comes up in the future, just let me know and we will work jointly between our DAO ops team and their team to work towards a solution!
Essentially, I think these are important elements to keep in mind while simultaneously also not ruling out other tools that could be beneficially to DAOs within our ecosystem (we can encourage them to build this into their tools if they haven’t already as we integrate.)
Would love to hear your thoughts! Thanks again for getting involved in the conversation.
Completely agree. I can see a day when we have a whole team of DAO ops devs rolling out tool like pancakes
Gonna be interesting what we’re going to be able to achieved now and going forward. Even with just Dework in helps up take some large leaps.
Need to do more testing and see what we have available currently. It’s like Christmas for DAOs
I wonder why we not ask Gnosis to make their Multi-Sig available for Harmony?
By this the DAO could be x-chain, Harmony don’t need to maintain the Gnosis and it would save a lot of time and those compability is more ensured. In the last 6 month on DAO’s I probably spent around 4 hours for nothing with Gnosis due to signing problems, transaction not going through, set up transaction is not visible, owner changes dind’t go through and now we are even complete stuck and Gnosis don’t move anymore. So we are even unable to try to connect DeWork
This is actually a really huge concern. If governors can’t even operate the multisig because of the wallet having issues. We won’t be able to pay our contributors of the DAOs. It will set a bad precedence to the community and people will not want to get involved. We are already struggling to have DAO Governors submit their candidacy, This issue an make it worse for our contributors.
I see this tool discussion happening across all of the DAOs I’m involved in. It’s a big problem. When I look at Sam’s list I cringe. There are too many tools spread across too many categories. All this represents DAO tooling 1st gen. We need to get to the next generation of DAO tooling.
I spoke briefly with Sam at ETHDenver about a new, all-in-one approach that prioritized coordination. I will be submitting a grant proposal when the new program details are published. I hope to build support from the Harmony DAO Ops team and the DAO governors. That will be critical as we want to build this in partnership with a limited number of DAOs who are piloting the dapp and providing feedback as we refine functionality and add new features.
Please reach out if you are interested or have feedback.
To me, dao tooling MUST start with a fully capable multisig. Staking alone could generate stable income. Also, if a dao were able to, say for example, stake with an app like tranquil finance and then lend its stONE for extra compounding or be able to take full advantage of all the great defi opportunities on harmony that the community decided on it would allow for dao treasuries to go to work for the dao. The current gnosis fork unfortunately is not working to serve the DAOs.
I can definitely add my support to needing to improve the multisig. Our protocol interacts with DeFi across all kinds of different chains, and our home chain, Harmony, is the only one that doesn’t support apps in the multisig, and it is so unreliable that it is very difficult to get DAO business done on our native chain. Very discouraging, and I can imagine a big turn off to new potential DAO’s looking to set up shop on Harmony.
DAO’s and the identification of members and Quorum
So far there are few DAO’s that directly identify their members and this is an important part. Especially when it comes to governance this is more than critical. I know the thought of a DAO badge could be a threshold but shouldn’t it be for people who really want to contribute.
What happens if there is a bad turnout or misidentification? One word case we can read here: Build Finance DAO Falls to Governance Takeover - Decrypt
Now why are you bringing this here? Well this has a special reason when I currently look over to the Creative DAO poll and see that the poll uses the ticket strategy. With this any 0x address can vote which is nice but is that a correct identification? Of the 220 votes, only 52 are active Harmony Wallets.
But isn’t that a Creative DAO problem? Yes and no it is important when we build structures and provide tools here that we explain them properly and even provide further assistance especially in the area of strategies for Snapshot.
What is your recommendation? That we hold a webinar in the future for important tools like Snapshot, similar to DeWork, because that way you know who to talk to if you have problems. In addition, I recommend a repeat of the Creative DAO elections this for the reason that I created a fresh empty wallet out of curiosity yesterday at noon and so could vote. That is, the risk that was manipulated here is extremely high!
Fully agree with this Ben, I have a meeting with the rest of the Creative DAO governors, then it looks like we will be speaking to our members and discussing this, we believe the elction will have to be redone.
Also, I’m fully with you that we have to push for tokenized voting. At first, i was against this, but now i see that not every Harmony holder, or every wallet should have a say, it should be the people that truly care about the DAOs, that get invoilved with the discussions, that attend the events, that try to participate, going the tokenized route we can also verify people to an extent to ensure people only get one vote.
Side note, the new snapshot is a nightmare, this vote getting messed up is partly my fault, but i really believe with us being pushed to the new snapshot, governors getting guides on setting up the ENS, and setting up Snapshot would have been useful.
Hopeful in many ways
Hopefully the voting can be redone without to much effort
Hopefully all goes as planned and the community follows
Hopefully the Creative DAO can help make some of the content accessible for governors to properly setup ENS
I agree with Ben, voting should be tokenized, and should be re-done
On the positive side; this will give a great opportunity to those who were unable to attend the Twitter Space for candidates.
Looking forward to see what the current governors decide
I am setting up the UKDAO the “behind the scenes” atm, so it can be user friendly. I am learning as I go and I found out I have to set up a new Metamask wallet and I have to pay the ETH fee to set up Snapshot.
OK the ETH fee can be claimed by the DAO after formation, however the wallet is not Multisig.
It is ok I can set a wallet up but then I have to make the wallet’s keys publicly available so other in the future can use Snapshot. This of course has many security issues.
Furthermore, I can understand the whole process and I can write a detailed “HowTo” however the whole process of voting is not intuitive and I’m sure many will be constantly confused. I can write a technical brief of how things I thing should operate for a dev team to follow or please look into a more user-friendly setting up and voting flow.
I know you need more Devs so let’s work on that as well.
In the meantime and at this stage a DAO Multisig should be able to set up Snapshot and able to operate multiple votes.
I believe a proper full multisig integration is most important. Alongside that, though, I recommend the DAO Ops team should focus on providing a recommendation for best election/voting practices. Obviously a dao is responsible ultimately for its own governance, but I think it would be wise to have a ‘best practices’ document including, among other things, a clearly laid out instruction for creating what the dao ops team feels would be a good representation of what a proper voting setup should entail to best represent the community and discourage fraudulent results. The recent post by the creative dao (Urgent Poll And Decision Required For The Creative DAO Election) highlights the need for some guidance in these matters. Other DAOs struggle with creating an equitable process as well.
During yesterday’s CDAO Twitter space, Giv mentioned the need for Harmony to not only approve grants to promising projects, but to help foster their success along the way. I believe the same approach should be taken by the DAO Ops team. To approve DAO proposals is great, but perhaps a more hands on approach in helping the DAOs achieve success in setting up their voting mechanisms and tooling would be helpful for the success of DAOs on Harmony.
Yes you are right that’s one issue that falls under x-chain, sorry to not go in detail earlier.
You need to have a ENS for the Snapshot but the Multi-Sig is only on Harmony, so one Governor holds the ENS for the DAO. That is not only a problem with centralisation more what happens if the Governor don’t give forward the Admin rights? Or even get a nice offer on Opensea and just sell it?
The ENS has to be under full control of the DAO and that would only be possible if we have a official gnosis with Harmony integrated and have the same wallet for Harmony as for Ethereum where we set up the ENS.
Thanks for sharing this list…
I am new to this… it will help to understand about DAOs product
This is really a interesting stuff
This is key. I know I may have missed quite a bit of the discussion in this area, being new to the forum, but in trying to develop a DAO that is high value in its own area, it would be super helpful to understand what the available tooling and platform is, or at least where to find that information.
I believe DoDAO is working towards providing primers for new DAO members or potential members, but is there a primer for a DAO developer or proposer, so to speak? Not for the DAO structure, ideas and governance planning, etc., but for the technical set up? Or is that something that every DAO does differently using whatever tools are out there? There are benefits to standards.
Just a few thoughts and questions.
Thanks for reading!
To provide a response to everyone regarding the multi-sig: Your voices are being heard.
The multi-sig wallet is at the foundation of everything we do on DAOs. DAOs are run by multi signature wallet operators, and the multi sig it is how we pay out signatories, DAO contributors, & use our funds to add value to the ecosystem while (hopefully) achieving self-sustainability.
After reading all of the feedback from this discussion & listening to community sentiment, we’ve clearly observed this is being a common pain point experienced amongst DAO signatories, being at the core of the functionality of a DAO.
I’ve brought this up to our team several times and have confirmed: There IS a solution is being worked on internally to fix the Gnosis multi-sig, and we will soon be releasing a more updated, functional, user-friendly version in the near future.
If you wish to voice these concerns on our weekly open DAO ops call, please DM me your email for an invite via Telegram or Twitter.
I hope that this response is helpful in some way
Coming back to this topic, when do we get a full functionality Multi-sig? I know I’m the nagger here but tbh Harmony will only be a home for more DAOs if we have a original Multi-sig and can also change chains. I think light up Dao created a second multi-sig for ETH, is that really the solution?
DeWork was introduced back in March and first thing I was mention is I love the tool but it’s not working with multi-sig and is still not working till today, why? Because of our side
Who else wanna see the official multi-sig coming to Harmony??
We could have it already ready if the Dao tooling proposals were not pushed back for several times slowing down just the building process.
Let’s keep looking outside of our chain, community seems to be pleased with that, nothing to say more about this subject don´t wanna be that " i told you " type of guy.
However with or without funds soon we will have a multisig that is cross chain so no worries