Octagon! PENTAGON! MONEY GONE!
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Thank you for the time you have dedicated to it, good job.
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In my opinion, the bull market will come soon, letās look forward to it together!
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Hey all,
Quiet weekend in the space with no movement of the stolen assets to report. Iāll continue to monitor the funds and report back to the team if any movement occurs!
As promised I have become a validator 
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And I just staked my small bag over there!
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Hey everyone, since the funds havenāt been moving as much I have decided to dedicate my free time to considering DAOs, their past and future funding, and where all that money went. I spent about 8 hours reading every DAO grant proposal and forum and compiled it all into a summary of each DAO, what they delivered, when they were paid and how much.
There is still much work to do to better determine what each entity did with those funds, as some of the Core DAOs actually appear to do a lot within the community. It is my goal to measure the cost of funding against the perceived value that the DAO brought to our chain and to present that. Right now my documentation is an outline of all of the DAOs and the payments that were made. I would love to hear from some of these organizations and to better understand if any DAOs are necessary moving forward.
Please feel free to read my Medium Article here. In conclusion there were over $2,629,650.00 sent out to DAOs recently.
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See the formatted and updated medium article here
The DAO of Moving Forward
Originally written by Pioneer on July 6th,2022.
The purpose of this article is to provide a brief overview of the current (July 2022) standing with DAOs that applied to the Harmony grant forum in 2021-2022 and to assess their deliverables compared to the payments that they received. As of this writing, $2,629,650.00 has been funded the DAOs listed below.
The above funds were largely used to pay the DAO leadership, their governors, in most cases. Hard working, dedicated individuals deserve to be paid for their time and we should expect nothing less. $75/ hr though? Absolutely not. We need leaders that will spend their time with passion and a true desire to attract new users and to maintain the current ONEs. The grant program needs an overhaul along with strict oversight and management to include follow ups. Those in charge of approving ANY funding need to be intimately familiar with the projects, DAOs, individuals, MultiSig treasury signers- from top to bottom they need to know where they are spending. We should implement more robust social engagement requirements, as have been set forth in the updated grant guidelines found here. Overall, the grant application process should be time-intensive, multi-faceted, and no longer easy to manipulate.
Our spending habits have been unjustifiably foolish and we need new processes and to either replace the decision makers or to come together and educate them on our new expectations. We cannot afford to throw away funds and we could not afford it in the bull market. Money is a privilege and it is not the key component of the grant. Opportunity is. We are offering a chance for anyone from any place on Earth with an internet connection and the time of day to apply themselves towards the opportunity to create meaningful, lasting impact on the Harmony chain. We need more active users, builders, and believers. Money is a means but it is not the answer. Passion, vision, and implementation of Web3 and real world milestones that yield results are the answer.
Qualified applicants can make a difference with less funding. Startup companies traditionally utilize very little in order to grow into a self-sustaining operation- this is not a new concept. DAO governors and project managers do not need to be paid until the subject is self sustaining or has produced their deliverables (in the event that the project is not geared towards income/revenue generation from its onset). We are currently allowing these grantees to drain their coffers while making very little progress with their funding because they ate it all themselves. The funding is for development, community engagement, events, and growing the userbase. And we need receipts. We could also approve grants and then require proposals for each tranche of funding. That way there is actual work required in order to ask for access to the funds and the grant team could send the payment directly to where it is required.
*** Please consider that some of these DAOs did deliver on their promises and that the price of ONE, in which they were funded, has fallen drastically (in some cases 90%) since they began. The issue isnāt always that they did not deliver, it is that the milestones from the Harmony Grant Team did not ask enough of them***
Tucsac DAO: A Spanish social media platform that was conditionally approved by
for the bootstrap grant of $50,000, but never funded based on the timing of the bear market and the updated guidelines found at the top of this article. Notably, the original ask from this project was $75,000, $50,000 of which would be paid to the (9) governors as salary.
Harmony Ukranian DAO: A regional DAO focused on exposure and inviting new users and developers into the Harmony ecosystem. Similarly, another Ukranian DAO proposal popped up around this same time, with an ask for funding of $50,000. Both proposals were rejected by
on June 15th.
LightItUp DAO: a Web3 aspiring (NFT) production company that specializes in outdoor light projection art that is employed to raise awareness. They requested a bootstrap grant of $75,000, $47,400 of which would be used as salaries to the team/ governors. The grant was approved on March 20th by
for the total amount asked and funded in entirety on March 26th by
. Their community engagement appears to have dwindled after attending a few Friday night meetups in the Denver area and taking a āroadtripā to the InfoComm2022 Expo in Las Vegas. They also mention attending NFT NYC. Last, they recently posted that their treasury is down to $5,500 as of May 15th ($75,000 lasted about four months) and that $2,000 was lost due to a MetaMask wallet hack. Their deliverables were largely superficial and this project appears to have failed to achieve a self-sustainable model.
Blu3 DAO: An organization that aims to onboard more women (1,000) by empowering their financial freedom through learning, exploring and building their careers and visions in the Web3 space. They are comprised of 7 DAOs total, each with a different function that follows their overall vision and mission statement. The proposal was granted immediate approval for $1,000,000 by the Harmony Team per
on February 19th and was funded for the amount of $25,000 on March 11th and again on March 31st for the same amount. These payments were specifically made to fund the ETH Rio Scholars fund. On April 14th they were funded $45,000 and again for $30,000 on June 7th as the final portion of their initial tranche. They have been under fire ever since due to allegations for involving their personal company with the DAO and their extended request for funding after already being awarded $50,000 for their 300+ page book titled āCreate Wealth in Harmonyā. There are also community qualms with the fact that a husband of one of the founding sisters works for Harmony. Overall, this DAO has engaged the community in ETH conventions and has involved female teams in hackathons.
Spanish DAO: A regional DAO seeking to onboard more of the Spanish speaking community that was approved for the $50,000 regional DAO grant and funded $10,000 for translating open.harmony.one on January 25th. As of June 23rd the last report was that this DAO is seeking ways to become self funded.
The Ambassador DAO: Woah. An in-person event marketing DAO that promotes cross-community collaboration that is a āshort-term task force focused on creating long-term and sustainable processes with the intent to transfer processes to existing DAOsā. The requested amount was a whopping $414,716, which was approved by @samharrison on December 21st, and funded in the amount of $136,000 on February 8th and an additional $60,000 on May 21st. They appear to have hosted weekly events that engaged with hundreds or current and prospective users in that timeframe, as well as earned $75/hr pay for the governors. The treasury currently has $9,740 (please do consider the drastic drop in value of $ONE).
Naija DAO: The Nigerian DAO is a regional group that seeks to onboard users within their community. They were approved for the regional bootstrap grant by
and funded on February 10th $10,000 for translating open.harmony.one . Afterwards they were funded an additional $20,000 on March 23rd for gaining 1,000 Twitter followers and apparently for translating theā¦ wait. Must have been a typo in the forum. Recently they hosted a Hackathon that brought in 140 participants, but they have been unable to pay the winners due toā¦ lack of funding?
Harmony Philippines DAO: A regional DAO that aims to create awareness about Harmony to Filipino students and professors. The grant was approved by
and funded on March 23rd for $10,000 for the completion of their translation milestone. On April 22nd they were funded in the amount of $10,000 for 1,000 Twitter followers. Theyāve since held 500 $ONE Twitter giveaway, and two MEME giveaway for 500 $ONE.
Aura Dogs DAO: Iām not kidding. They want to make a positive impact for the field of animal care outside of the blockchain space. They aim to create real world impact by spreading good vibes throughout the crypto space. They will also sell NFTs. This dog, I mean grant, was approved by
and funded on April 5th for the amount of $60,000. There is about $5,000 left in the treasury as of this writing.
Golden DAO: They aim to onboard Asian Americans through IRL gatherings and boast a membership NFT that was minted in ETH ($2000). They were granted via the Project-X program at EthDenver for a $500,000 investment and funded on February 27th for the amount of $100,000. This appears to be a high end project that allegedly raised $1M through the sale of their NFT and gained over 10,000 users across their social media sites. They also gathered 1,000 attendees for their LA NFT launch party. They currently have $12,800 in the treasury as of the time of this writing.
Meta Gamma Delta DAO: Seeking to inspire women to enter Web3 via scholarships, partner programs, and mentorship. The initial funding request was for a whopping $250,000 and it was approved and funded on Jan 23rd for the 1st installment of $125,000. They never looked back and have offered zero deliverables. They have also accepted a grant from the Polygon network, as well as many others.
Vegan Africa DAO: Yum. A Project-X DAO that markets to the vegan population, attempting to onboard 10,000 new users by tapping into the environmentally-minded community of Africa and its investors. They launched an NFT campaign that would then fund enviro-conscious startups and the holders are given vegan products made in Africa as rewards. This DAO used the Project-X loophole and was funded on February 27th for $20,000. Afterwards they deserted the forum and have not been heard from.
Mempodera DAO: Bring Web3 to the vulnerable (majority) population ofā¦ Brazil? Not quite sure, as this project was mysteriously funded after being declined under the consideration of the DAO Ops team by nature of Project Y by @boris_polania. They walked with funding of $10,000 on April 8th.
DoDAO: An educational platform that seeks to educate through articles and videos to act as a DAO onboarding space. They asked for $36,000 and were mysteriously funded after taking calls with Aura Dog DAO and Ambassador DAO. Allegedly they were approved by DAO ops prior to the pause on funding (no record of that in the forum), so Chak_Raam pushed for āemergency fundingā to save face for the 1DAO Alliance . Luckily, the DoDAO had also rapidly completed 2/3 milestones and were able to secure special funding for their creation of a Basic DAO guidebook and the DoDAO article/ interview. These milestones completions must have had a tremendous positive impact on the DAO community at large; payment was sent out on May 13th for the amount of $24,000 and a final $12,000 funded on June 6th. After receiving funding they cashed out and it has been radio silence ever since.
ONERu DAO: Onboard the Russian speaking community by setting up social media and doing nothing just like the rest of the regional DAOs mentioned prior. Hate to say it, but thatās just how it plays out. Great news,
noticed the drastic level of community support on the forum (there were about 10 comments prior to him, 9 of which were the āgovernorsā) and decided to approve with the support of @nickv. This was funded for the amount of $10,000 on January 24th for the translating of open.harmony.one. Then again on January 24th for the same amount in accordance with the milestone for finding 5 other Russian speaking grantees. And again on February 10th for $10,000 for achieving the immense task of 1,000 Twitter followers.
Harmony NFT DAO: Educate people about NFTs through online classes and in-person workshops. Ask and you shall receive. They gave a rough outline and name dropped that 6 of their governors were present for Project X in EthDenver and were immediately approved by āDannyā. Subsequently funded for $50,000 on March 1st. Radio silence for the past two months.
Harmony Korea DAO: Another regional DAO for onboarding and translating their respective community and language into Web3. They were funded for translating the open.harmony.one site for $10,000 on November 25th, 2021 and again on February 25th for 10,000 for achieving 1,000 telegram followers. They apparently made YouTube videos, articles, and introductions for the Harmony ecosystem. Over one month of silence from them.
TokenJenny DAO: Come on. Really? They got paid for their service to the community for allowing everyone to make shitcoins.
approved this grant and it was funded for $60,000 on January 24th. Afterwards, silence.
Portugal DAO: Bring more users from the regional community via the exact same initiatives as the other copy and paste regional DAOs did. Great due diligence
for the instant approval and funding on December 21st for the amount of $10,000 for hosting 2 events of 50 people or more. Honestly, good on them for hosting the events, but they looked more like drinking parties than onboarding events.
French Connection DAO: Onboard the French speaking community through social IRL events and online presence. Funded January 17th for $30,000 for translating open.harmony.one , having 1,000 Twitter followers, and hosting two recorded events that brought together around 100 attendees (https://twitter.com/i/status/1487546806611415040).
The French Connection DAO - #75 by AlexONE0662
SpectrumX DAO: Implement psychology into Web3 by finding ways for those on the spectrum to be heard in this space. This includes a potential NFT project with psychology driven art. This 24 y/o solo applicant asks for a $10,000 grant to ālive off ofā. @Boris_Polania was able to approve this grant at EthDenver Project-X and funding was sent in full on March 25th. She cashed out within hours of funding to a CEX, never to be heard from.
India DAO: Bring more Indian users to Web3 by promoting projects, creating social media accounts, and hosting online events. There seems to be no actual approval, however they were funded $15,000 for their hackathon milestone on February 28th, and another one that was issued prior to that without mention until later for the amount of $30,000 for translation and Twitter followers on January 20th. Their last payment was received on April 22nd for the amount of $10,000 for completion of their 2 social events. The proposal is riddled with users explaining how this DAO cannot aim to tackle all of the Indian community, as it is such a diverse space full of over 22 official languages and many religions.
Africa DAO: Wow. Not just a region, but an entire continent. They seek to educate and empower African youth through NFTs initiatives, remittances, and potential land ownership. They were funded $242, 650 on December 4th as a partial payment. Theyāve since hosted several in person events of around 50 attendees and later came under fire when the governors tried to change the name of the organization to Impact Plus DAO. Their treasury currently contains $1,400 and the forum has been silent since April 19th.
Beta DAO: A self-sustaining community for pre-entrepreneurs that seeks to onboard entrepreneurs, investors, and start-ups into Web3. They were funded on March 23rd for $75,000 due to their completion of their initial formation, hosting in-person events, and having 100 Discord members. They failed to become self-sustaining after the first quarter and now have $1,200 in their treasury.
Incubator DAO: Mentorship, connections, and treasury guidance for promising projects on Harmony. They were funded with very little proposal or community support on December 9th for $20,000.
zkDAO: This one is kind of confusing, but they write grant apps seemingly weekly for potential projects, and if 5 or more get positive votes from their own governors, they ask for big monies. Funded $400,000 on March 28th.
Dev DAO: The developers of Harmony aim to onboard and provide training/ resources to the dev community. They were most recently funded for $100,000 on March 21st to pay their governors for their work in supporting hackathons, providing bug fixes, and holding workshops/ events to further market the Harmony chain.
Aragon DAO/ Chainlink Challenge: Prize money for a Hackathon. It appears to have been funded on March 17th for $20,000. Where it went afterwards is a mystery. Actually, itās on the blockchain.
https://talk.harmony.one/t/hackathon-challenge-chainlink/11423/6
NoBank Hackathon: This is for some reason listed as a Track 6 DAO proposal and was funded the amount of $40,000, which was issued March 11th. It appears to be Hackathon prize money.
Validator DAO: Seeks to represent and strengthen the validator and delegator community through increasing the number of elected validators, creating how to formatted content for new validators, as well as a mentorship program. They were approved by
and funded $100,000 on February 11th for their third term. Earlier, they received funding for $100,000 on November 6th, 2021.
DaVinci DAO: An NFT marketplace that rugged the community and was fully funded on September 28th, 2021 for the amount of $50,000 after an 80% funding was achieved via communitypoll.
Dreamer DAO: That it is. Lets fund 100 people that canāt afford to attend EthDenver 2022- $1,000 per scholar. Instead,
counter offered to sponsor 50 attendees and funded this grant for $50,000 on October 28th, 2021. Look at the wallet to see where that money went. Iāll give you a hint- not were it was supposed to.
Harmony Community DAO: Engage with the community and interact to spread the enthusiasm of Harmony. Funded $50,000 for their second term on October 2nd, 2021 and another round of funding for $100,000 on January 9th.
HER DAO: A women-centered dev DAO that seeks to include under represented female, trans, and non-binary populations through IRL events, competitions, meetups, etc. They appear to be actively attending conventions at this time.
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Good job again, I love seeing the dedication you put into it and the value you really bring to the community.
I will be happy to provide you with more information about the Tucsac DAO.
I personally traveled to Denver to meet and expose Tucsac to the Harmony team in person after having had several previous meetings with Boris and showing him everything we had already done, he invited me to come to have a better approach.
The summary of the trip to Denver was all great, the very nice team, Steven, Li, Boris, Jose, Gabriel, Juan, etcā¦ I had the pleasure of exposing my project to all of them and they were delighted, the truth is that I left very good feelings there, they assigned me to Jose to take care of helping us with the DAO proposal and he did great.
Our objective of creating a DAO for the social network was for the reason of not being linked to anything centralized since one of our pillars is data privacy and not selling that data to third parties like current social networks. That is why we decided to accept no deal from the ventures and private investors who wanted to enter the platform to finance it.
Our goal has always been to create the platform for the community and for it to be managed by the community itself, which is why we needed a DAO.
We worked on the budget in relation to what they told us in Denver, we were very lost at the beginning.
The budget allocated to the payment of the Governors was due to the guidelines that Harmony proposed to us of 75 dollars an hour and really the Governors were already clear that they would spend many more hours than those that were presented.
Each governor also deals with very important points that make it possible to complete the goals presented, which, from the money earmarked for the salary, they allocated money to pay costs that are related to the goals and the progress of the project, it was not a net benefit.
They took a long time to respond to the request and when they accepted us they decided to change our budget from 75,000 to 50,000 on the condition that we meet some milestones that Harmony asked us for. We restructured the budget and eliminated a large part of the salaries to be able to complete the milestones, at that stage the salaries were already a lower percentage than that presented in the proposal.
We completed 2 of the 3 Milestones that were asked of us, the third milestone we said that at the moment we had no intention of completing it since they asked us to make another vote for the governors and we had already carried out a vote with the community of Tucsac to elect the governors, We didnāt see it fair to do another vote 2 weeks later when everyone was already 100% dedicated.
We said that we would leave that milestone for the next government to come and we did not go for those funds that they gave us for that milestone, which shows that we were not greedily after money.
Everything stopped on the part of Harmony, we have controlled Harmonyās movements, Liās payments, they left us absent after presenting the completed milestones and they did not get to pay us, meanwhile if we saw how they have paid others, to present the milestones a day and the next to be paid, we have messages telling us that everything was stopped and that the DAOs were not being paid and we publicly saw that some DAOs were being paid.
We are annoyed because this is blockchain, a transaction is done in seconds and never arrives, the lack of communication and transparency for several months discouraged us a lot, but we continue working and today we have not stopped doing it, we are simply annoyed by the lack On the part of Harmony, they first commit to 75,000, they change us to 50,000 well, we accept it without problems since we think long term, then they set the milestones for us and after completing them they donāt decide to pay us? We have conformed to what they have asked at all times without having the duty to do so since in Denver they told us what we had to do and we did that, we kept our word at all times, they are negative at the moment.
Iām sorry for my English, I donāt control much.
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The issues that persist here have risen due to poor goal setting, budget monitoring mechanism, ignorance around strictness of milestone management and most importantly, excessive opaqueness of the whole process.
Iām not sure if this is an understated point, or if I am unaware of the team dynamic (if leads & managers escalated issues about difficult workloads to topmost senior leadership in a timely manner)
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But a strongly registered protest that arrives its destination 8 months AFTER the launch of the initiative (June offsite meet), is neither swift, nor decisive decision making, with utter disregard of regional differences in terms of pricing, outcomes & goals for the community and ecosystem itself.
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Financial misallocation, poor experimentation, unfocused strategy & untimely/poor reset and adjustments have become hallmarks of this ecosystem, a drastic change about the sentiment in 9-12 months.
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It wouldnāt be remiss to admit as an investor & a community of the CT space that Harmony doesnāt inspire confidence in terms of on-chain reputation, whether itās ecosystem projects, DAOās or attracting top crypto talent.
(It has been jokingly referred as the rug-chain by eminent crypto sleuths due to poor governance guard-rails, on-chain analytics opportunities, poor developer on-boarding experience & the correct knowledge resources for a contributor to kickstart their journey).
- Lack of appropriate operational frameworks, operational deficiencies, rolling business strategy & frugal, small-startup thinking has brought the whole ecosystem to kneel, and this is without the backdrop of looming bridge hack, leaving the investors and community to an uncertain future.
[WhatsApp as a product with small team serving millions of customers is an absolute outlier, because despite their early scaling effort, the team had no protocol revenue, there was little in terms of data governance or financial counterparty risk, and it was prime opportunity for founder exit, at the expense of planned product roadmap goals.]
- While financial investments in a highly speculative asset class, based on faith in a team & personal risk appetite might seem lucrative option, managing community & investor confidence is an extremely slippery slope.
Itās high time to go back to the drawing board in a timely manner, or the market forces will do it for you. People want to be lead, with precise goals and foreseeable vision of a future, and its the leaders who set the tone.
Edit1: Just to clarify, I do not shift the entire cauldron of blame towards the Harmony core team, and hold DAO signatories as complicit too in certain regard.
The current debilitating condition either indicates a deeply entrenched administrative atmosphere of exclusionary, hierarchial circles with lack of upward feedback channels, (about raising timely red flags, whether itās related to capital, operational, and knowledge power) or colluding circles of incompetence with malintent in the absence of oversight from all sides.
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This sounds like a bad jokeā¦
As for the FrenchDAO the 2 events are documented, why donāt you talk about all the tutorials we have made to help the community for staking and many other tutorials? Why donāt you talk about the telegram which has grown from 50 people to almost 300 people? And the help we give to people when they have questions also on telegram?
The Core Team should look further than the end of its nose before criticizing so easily and without real argumentā¦ itās a shame to repeat the fault on all daos in this wayā¦
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Hi Alex,
Thank you for reaching out. In regards to the French Connection DAO, and all other regional DAOs, my goal here is to summarize in a format that is readable and concise. Also, I cannot read French and I see that the majority of the posted documentation is written as such. That is my limitation and reason for not further outlining the details. Also, everything that I have written is presented for discussion like this and there is plenty of room for correction. I have actually spent additional time to reach out to many of these DAOs (as well as the time spent formatting posts like these to alert those I speak about) for their feedback.
French Connection DAO received $30,000 total afaik. This research seeks to evaluate the outcomes compared to the amount of time funded and the amount received.
I am not core team. I am just another user that spends my time and energy to investigate and discuss the information in hopes of the betterment of our chain.
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Hey all, I moved the DAO topic to its own post as to have a more dedicated discussion. This will remain my lair for tracking and reporting.
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Why do you lie? Do you not see https://one.dodao.io? Why did you not mention that?
DoDAO is here to stay and if you are working on a project about which we can write educational content, we would love to do that.
You seem to be an intelligent person. If you can share the five latest most active projects on Harmony we would love to write about them.
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Hi, glad that you were able to take the time to respond here. It is really important that we work together to make sure that the info here is true.
I would strongly advise against starting our discussion by calling me a liar. That is not a productive way to address the issue. Every piece of information that I presented here is based on the grant forum. It has been one month since you have posted anything on the forum, which is the day after your last installment of $12,000. The point of this conversation is to explore the amount each DAO was funded and compare that to the deliverables.
I am here to provide data to the community and I am more than willing to continue to spend my time (for free) to compile and analyze it. If you can show me the deliverables, I can change the summary of your project. At this time, what is known to the community is that you were funded $36,000 and your site, which yes I am aware of, has 21 registered members and lists only 14 DAOs. Whereas the summary that I have presented here in a matter of 15 hours of my free time contains 50 DAOs that have received funding. After the funding stopped rolling in we heard nothing regarding the progress of this DAO.
The DoDAO treasury now contains $60 or 3,098 ONE. Each time that funding was received, it was promptly sent off chain to mostly one wallet.
Please correct any mistakes in my updated summary. I am hear to listen and to provide feedback in one space. As I stated at the very beginning of my post, all of the fault is not on the DAOs. Harmony Grant Team asked you to complete very low-standard milestones in return for the funding. I understand that. This is more about how we move forward and how we can raise the bar.
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You saw all this, and you are mentioning all this, but you never ever mentioned the site https://one.dodao.io in your summary? How honest are you?
Your figures on treasury and your justifications are just to prove others wrong.
As I said earlier, DoDAO is here to stay and if you are working on a project about which we can write educational content, we would love to do that.
You seem to be an intelligent person. If you can share the five latest most active projects on Harmony we would love to write about them.
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For matters regarding my DAO presentation, please direct all conversation and feedback here
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Good job??? The guy had read forum and made wrong analysis based on forum data. Ha, great analyst. We made all milestones without cheating. Part of the funded money was spent on community motivation. Has anybody of you hŠµld the event with more than 500 members for the whole day? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5bu5ybcMDE
We made our youtube channel, where translate some videos without demanding money https://www.youtube.com/c/ONERuDAO
All you can is made proposals and talk about nothing.
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please see the updated forum dedicated to this report. Your DAO summary was updated after a discussion with Shestov. Any new information will be added at your submission.
Solid approach to constructive feedback, friend. Iām here to work with the DAOs and the greater community.
Then maybe it would be better to ask DAOs about what they do? If you canāt gather the information yourself.
I did ask many of the DAOs for their feedback and have worked with them to keep this info updated in the dedicated forum post. As I said, If you provide me with more info I can update the summary, as I did with Shestov.
Also, I have joined the 1DAO Alliance discord and just finished attending the AMA. Didnāt see many participants, but the ones that were there mean business.
Please reply and continue this conversation on the dedicated forum liked above.
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